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Autobiography | HowlRound Theatre Commons

Bíborka: Welcome to PUHA podcast, which stands for Performative Unity within the Hungarian Arts, produced for HowlRound Theatre Commons, a free and open platform for theatremakers worldwide. We’re your hosts, Zsofi and Biborka.

Right here we go. So, welcome to the seventh episode of PUHA. The subject right this moment is autobiography. Do you need to say your identify and your occupation—what you think about your self—and anything you need to share? Simply as an introduction spherical. Do you need to go this fashion?

Judit Tarr: Okay. My identify is Judit Tarr. I’m an actress. I’m a member of just a little firm referred to as E-Mancik Színházi Manufaktúra the…

Bíborka: Manufacture.

Judit: Yeah. Yeah, that’s it.

Zsófi: Okay.

László Göndör: Hello, my identify is Laszlo Gondor. I’m a performer and director, little bit, and I don’t have my very own firm, however I’ve my very own individuals who I prefer to work with. However I’m at all times open to discovering new individuals in Hungary, particularly Budapest. However I additionally work internationally generally with different firms. So I’m a theatrical creator; theatremaker.

Panni Néder: I’m Panni Neder and I’m dwelling in Berlin for eleven years. Mainly, I’m a stage director however creator for my items or tasks and performer as properly. And I’m doing autobiographical theatre for eight years.

Kristóf Kelemen: My identify is Kristof Kelemen. I’m a playwright, dramaturg, and theatre director and just a little bit performer, additionally, I can say. And I’m working in an impartial and in addition within the state theatre subject as a dramaturg and director.

Zsófi: Thanks. Cool. So, we like to start out the dialog with this one little harmless query, which is: What’s efficiency or efficiency artwork to you?

Bíborka: Attempt to reply it in a single temporary sentence. We all know it’s difficult, however that’s a part of the deal.

Zsófi: It may be only one phrase.

Panni: Okay. To me, efficiency, it may be two issues: one is to attain one thing, to do a purpose in a efficiency, or it may be a present, just like the performance-performance.

László: What first got here to my thoughts—it was good to chill out—one thing I used to be considering quite a lot of was one thing like being playful with a specific objective.

Bíborka: Attention-grabbing.

Kristóf: Possibly it’s attention-grabbing that in Hungarian language efficiency is one of these artwork items like what made Marina Abramovic or these type of individuals. However within the English, it has what solely talked about that there are two totally different meanings or ranges of this phrase. So I feel in Hungarian, if you’re seeing “efficiency,” all people who is aware of the artwork subject just a little, they’re eager about this experimental kind of theatremaking.

Panni: However what Marina Abramovic did, I imply she at all times needed to purpose to attain, and I feel that’s why it was efficiency.

László: Nevertheless it ought to be referred to as efficiency artwork. That’s the official identify of that and efficiency is the final time period for all the pieces that’s theatrical or performative.

Judit: For me, it’s making reference to the viewers and that’s true if we’re speaking about performing artwork and performances as properly, I feel.

Zsófi: For me that’s type of what I might say now. The reference to the viewers and the group.

Judit: Yeah.

Zsófi: You need to reply? You haven’t answered it for some time.

Bíborka: Yeah, at all times. So each time we report this, we additionally reply it, however we by no means gave the 2 similar solutions in an episode. So right this moment for me, efficiency is, I might, say being conscious of what you do and the way you do it.

Panni: And problem for me as properly.

Bíborka: So, autobiography, we guess it’s participating with part of your life in a method or one other utilizing some performativity or theatricality. So what a part of your life have you ever engaged with on this means and will you say some related tasks or items that you’ve got had or perhaps you’re at present engaged on?

Panni: Okay. So I’ve had many, and I feel the primary essential was the German title is Aschmutter and Cinderella in German is Aschenputtel and mutter is mom. And it was a challenge primarily based on my—not solely primarily based on my mom’s story, however I wished to grasp why did my mom change into such an individual as she did. After which I concerned six different—some actors and just a few individuals who preferred theatre and that type of arts and we have been researching their tales as properly collectively. So it was a motherhood challenge. However again then I didn’t notice it was autobiographical, I simply wished to try this. So I feel it got here later or years later that I met this phrase, “autobiography.”

After which for me, my most essential present with an extended title is When Was the Final Time You Had Intercourse on Prime of a Mountain. And it’s one hundred pc autobiographical—I’m onstage as properly, and I wrote it in fourteen totally different languages with the serving to arms of Google Translate. And it’s about all the pieces, actually: minorities; politics in Jap and Western Europe; difficulties with a international language as a result of I simply began it once I moved to Germany and began to review there. So it was about how did I really feel misplaced in a brand new nation, not solely due to the language however due to the tradition as properly. And it’s about very, very private fears as properly. So international fears and really private sexual fears or household patterns or no matter. And it’s one hundred pc autobiographical, and it’s extra I wouldn’t listing something. And my final premiere, it was in November in Berlin, and it was about love and relationships and relationship patterns and intimacy, and it was my story as properly.

So it’s additionally very self-ironic as a result of… so it was type of enjoyable scenario as a result of I didn’t be taught theatre at school like all people else right here within the room, so I didn’t know find out how to do it correctly. However on the similar time, I might do it anyhow I wished to do as a result of I had no masters and academics.

Kristóf: I feel I start to work on totally different documentary theatre items, and this was the gate of the autobiographical theatre for me and certainly one of—sure, my first efficiency in Budapest, what I directed. was a efficiency with Judit additionally, so she was on the stage. The title was Why You’re Studying this Title, We’re Speaking About You. And this efficiency primarily based on an actor examination in 1970 on the College of Theatre and Movie Arts in Budapest. And this was a scandalous examination and I made interviews about this occasion and we thought that we, with the actors within the efficiency, that we wished to discuss our current tales and our connections to this occasion up to now. And the actors inform totally different tales in regards to the actor coaching on the college, relationships with academics, and in addition the scenario of enter within the theatre subject as knowledgeable actor or actress. And sure, this was for me an important efficiency and perhaps you might inform just a little about it since you was additionally a part of it.

Judit: Yeah, so we labored along with Kristof and the opposite ones and the actresses, like actors. And we have been working—we had so many conversations collectively and a lot recollections came visiting which we mentioned. And at last we select some, we’ve been spoken onstage and it was actually free. It was so liberating for us and for the viewers as properly as a result of if I communicate by coronary heart, it may be so refreshing for the others as properly.

Kristóf: Sure. I feel one of many details was that we talked about names and we inform tales within the publicity, inform tales, these not a part of the publicity earlier than or not sometimes half in Hungary and it’s good primarily in regards to the tradition of dialogue in Hungary. I feel we’ve got a practice from the socialism how we’re eager about, for instance, hierarchy and in addition about dialogues between totally different individuals within the skilled subject. And we attempt to just a little, I feel, provoke these questions, how we’re eager about these tales, and what could possibly be part of the publicity.

Judit: And that’s why it was so laborious for the primary time to inform these tales in entrance of the viewers as a result of since then I had some performances which was autobiographical however not this fashion that I used to be telling tales with names and individuals who can… [speaking in Hungarian]?

Bíborka: (translating) Be acknowledged and affect.

Judit: Yeah, affect my work.

Bíborka: Your profession.

Judit: My profession. However that’s why it was so refreshing I feel and for the viewers as properly, to be a part of it. to see.

Bíborka: And how much work do you do now since this efficiency that you simply took half?

Judit: With my little firm?

Bíborka: Yeah, your organization.

Judit: We have now two performances. We wrote about our tales, our recollections, our traumas. For the primary one is Szomjas Férfiak Sört Isznak Helyettem so I can translate it like “thirsty man ingesting beer as a substitute of me,” which is about our sexual and love life. We introduced it actually truthfully, and it comprises many humor as properly. It’s so outspoken and the subsequent one is Válogatáskazi – Szomjas Fiúk Tolják a Kakaót. I can translate like, “sorted playlist, thirsty boys push chocolate milk,” and it’s about our childhood and teenage. After which it’s the same means and we’re telling tales about our childhood and the teenage, little sense, and songs we wrote.

Bíborka: And who’s the we?

Judit: We, yeah. So, “we” is the 4 actresses, and so we processing our life.

László: Mainly. I’m newcomer and in addition late comer within the subject of theatre in Hungary. That gave me quite a lot of benefits and downsides. So to talk to this, my first greater present—truly that is the third I directed—however that is the primary autobiographical and I don’t know if the subsequent one will probably be autobiographical or not. However let me inform you about this present, after which I proceed about what I discovered about it and what my fashion appears like in the intervening time.

So this present is about my grandma and I and it’s extra about me, truly as I acquired to comprehend, than my grandma. So my intention was to create a present about my grandma and our relationship, nevertheless it’s revealed that it’s actually my private method to digest this relationship and to face this relationship so my perspective is the principle perspective of the function. And I’m on the stage so I feel it’s an autobiographical play as a result of… so, I moved to my grandma for a month in 2020. So it was a private experiment that I face our relationship, and my unique purpose was to place this relationship to a subsequent degree earlier than she dies. As a result of she was already ninety-seven years outdated, and I had nightmares, and I used to be actually anxious about her passing. And I wished to avoid wasting so much from her but in addition to enhance this relationship with what’s crucial relationship in my life earlier than she died. And in order that was an experiment and an important private one, so I did it. And it was profitable in a means. I wished to achieve success.

However once I went there, I already knew that I need to create a present from this story. So, it was very meta, so it wasn’t only a separate experiment, however the experiment already included that it’s going to be a present on the level, however we don’t know what the present will probably be. However we’re already engaged on one thing. So it was type of attention-grabbing and fairly troublesome at that second. So we needed to face and take care of quite a lot of stuff and never simply theatrical but in addition very lot of private, emotional difficulties. And in order that’s how this present was created, and the present itself is extra about my entire battle to take care of all these questions and stresses and this type of love. So, it’s additionally private, additionally reflective on theatre and the best way I make theatre.

So it’s additionally very self-ironic as a result of… so it was type of enjoyable scenario as a result of I didn’t be taught theatre at school like all people else right here within the room, so I didn’t know find out how to do it correctly. However on the similar time, I might do it anyhow I wished to do as a result of I had no masters and academics. So I simply learn books and, okay, I went to essentially good workshops, and I studied within the States for some time appearing. However I felt it’s a really free experiment or subject for me to—and in addition the stress is even larger and greater once you don’t have any fundamentals in it. So the present itself displays on it as properly. So I’ve no instruments, I’m not expert sufficient and stuff, however I’m on the stage and I need to do one thing good and essential. And the trick was initially that perhaps the great factor can be I make one thing good, on the similar time I do nothing actually classically good. So I can’t sing fantastically, I don’t know find out how to communicate completely and these classical… so it’s additionally like an assault on these traditional values of what we predict theatre ought to be and the way the traditional qualities ought to be. And with out these, we can’t do good theatre.

And I really feel I managed to do present with out all these expertise. And I feel that’s an attention-grabbing factor for the long run, how we are able to create attention-grabbing issues in theatre. And that’s why I’m actually thinking about autobiographical and experimental theatre, in a means, how I perceive. As a result of we are able to carry quite a lot of actuality and life and really attention-grabbing concepts on the stage and perhaps it’s extra attention-grabbing than singing fantastically or talking completely and I feel that’s the massive query of this entire subject for me. Possibly I don’t say these are essential values and may be very, very helpful and generally I want I might communicate a lot nicer—I don’t. However on the similar time, perhaps this focus is extra essential these days in theatre and perhaps younger persons are extra thinking about that.

In order that’s why I’m actually thinking about documentary and autobiographical theatre as properly. I feel… so this piece was autobiographical, however what I’ve discovered from it’s that and the way I need to work. So I began to be taught a working technique. If I do a subsequent present, perhaps may be very totally different, but when I need to present one thing like this, then I actually began to enhance this technique. So first I name myself a researcher and, on this sense, perhaps it turns into autobiographical, perhaps not. If the researcher itself later a part of is a part of the present as a result of the researcher’s perspective is essential, then it may be autobiographical. If the researcher stays outdoors of this private storytelling context, then it’s perhaps simply documentary. I feel that’s my differentiation. So on this case, I used to be a researcher and it was my story and it may be totally different subsequent time, however perhaps I make a analysis first.

For the analysis section is that I’m the researcher, and I intervene with the truth someway. So it’s not simply I’m observing actuality, however I do one thing with actuality. So, I transfer to my grandma. And if I do a subsequent present, I need to do one thing like that. So I need to do… prefer it ought to be a giant factor, a giant challenge in interplay with different individuals interfering with the truth. So, I need to do one thing, not simply observing however creating these new realities, new conditions. And I need to make a present of this course of, so the way it occurred. However perhaps I received’t be onstage, so it perhaps received’t be autobiographical. Possibly I used to be solely the researcher or the creator of this challenge.

In order that’s my technique. So in my case, there’s an essential step that I… not simply amassing paperwork or observing actuality, however I additionally need to change actuality first. After which I carry it to theatre, and in theatre, hopefully, that type of factor will change what we see there or what we current. It’s not simply one thing from the previous, however it may change the viewers actuality once more. So it’s like a two phases actuality change. That’s what I’m actually now as I’m considering of… like I need to do one thing like this sooner or later.

Judit: I feel I need to inform as soon as extra that it’s so essential to make use of humor and replicate on your self. And I wish to inform just a little story. I used to have very painful interval, and I introduced sin of my first interval, use a lot humor. It’s [really funny] and I acknowledge that my interval isn’t painful anymore, however I didn’t respect this; it simply occurred. So it may be so useful in your life. So that you requested what results on our private life, it may be.

Zsófi: Yeah, I imply now I’m courting a man who’s not rejecting me.

László: I simply had this dialog just a few days in the past in a workshop. So that they requested me how lengthy will I play this present, and this is essential query as a result of—on this subject in fact—however now final time, additionally final week, in Bánkitó Competition, I performed this present. And I felt like I overcome a few of my difficulties with my idealizing individuals a lot as I did, and that was due to this present for positive. That’s why I improved a lot in that subject. And I simply modified in so many ranges, and my relationships additionally modified. So I used to be standing there onstage performing this play, and I heard myself within the recordings, and I used to be making that function. I used to be truly a 12 months in the past, and I felt that it’s slowly turning into a task that I play myself one 12 months in the past. And this was so humorous, it’s so attention-grabbing. How lengthy do you settle for and tolerate—or do you tolerate it—a task that you simply play your earlier self?

Judit: That’s why I at all times change textual content.

Sure, however I feel there may be additionally a rule that if you’re telling together with your identify onstage one thing, the viewers watch that as a real story. So I feel it’s an attention-grabbing query, that: How might you play with this function? How might you rewrite this function?

László: Okay. However I respect that materials a lot as a result of it’s an important reminiscence of that age. However perhaps it’s just a little bit… the attention-grabbing half is that it turns into just a little bit pretend in a way as a result of that man who’s standing onstage is enjoying his earlier self. So it’s not true that he’s, or perhaps it’s not an issue for you. However I used to be considering as a developer.

Judit: Are you able to think about that any individual else would play this present?

Panni: You possibly can select.

László: That’s an excellent query as a result of perhaps, two years later, I will probably be so totally different than even one other particular person might play perhaps even higher, in order that’s query.

Kristóf: Sure. And I feel that was what I attempted to clarify earlier than: that there will probably be fictitious persona on the stage. You possibly can inform your personal tales, nevertheless it’s not an actual scenario that I’m telling my tales in entrance of 100 or 2 hundred individuals. So it’s extra about this case, that how might you be along with the viewers and the way do you prefer to be in entrance of this many individuals? And I feel it’s additionally essential that what sort of… kisugárzás?

Bíborka: (translating) Radiance? Radiation? Vibe? Vibe, yeah.

Kristóf: Sure. What sort of vibe do you could have onstage? As a result of I feel there are individuals who couldn’t inform their tales, not as a result of they aren’t professionals. The explanation why they couldn’t is that they don’t like this case and it’s not good to observe from the viewers and it’s not… the scenario makes not free these individuals. And I feel it’s essential since you might have errors, however I feel you must someway get pleasure from your self on the stage

László: For positive.

Panni: Yeah, in fact.

László: For positive.

Panni: Yeah, however I feel it relies on a type—you realize, what you’re performing and since you’re not the identical particular person, and many others. However as I discussed, I at all times rewrote the textual content and that saved it alive, the place I can think about in your case that perhaps autobiographical dance or bodily theatre, that you’re nonetheless the identical particular person and perhaps you’ll carry out your ache on one other degree due to course it’s modifications however you aren’t your previous self, proper? Or, I don’t know.

Bíborka: I additionally began eager about your query—whether or not I can think about one other dancer or one other particular person doing this efficiency and I don’t know. Like, I actually don’t know. In the identical means then I feel it will change into a choreography with very intense moments however not my story anymore—

Zsófi: And never the tendencies.

Bíborka: Not the tendencies. It could be attention-grabbing to observe, however I feel this connection that I discussed, it will be nonetheless in all probability good to observe. However I don’t assume that sharing the reference to the viewers, like that entire factor, can be there in the identical means, I don’t know.

Zsófi: And it will be appearing like it will be not… I don’t know, performing, however appearing in each case, I feel. So it’s only a totally different factor.

Bíborka: Utterly.

Kristóf: Sure, however I feel there may be additionally a rule that if you’re telling together with your identify onstage one thing, the viewers watch that as a real story. So I feel it’s an attention-grabbing query, that: How might you play with this function? How might you rewrite this function? And I feel there are many artists who’re enjoying this function. There’s a, I don’t know… a lady who inform a narrative of a person on the stage as, “I’m this man.” And I feel it might use or it might make an attention-grabbing play on the stage. For instance, if Judit inform or play your present, I feel it begins to discuss the theatricality and extra like meta. It makes extra meta context of the entire present, and the query is how might, for instance, Judit inform your story in an genuine means additionally or how we might think about that you simply did these.

Panni: Yeah, however then it’s not autobiographical.

Kristóf: Sure, it’s not autobiographical, nevertheless it’s extra like… it could possibly be, for instance, verbatim theatre, nevertheless it’s extra like an experimental theatre.

Panni: I feel it’s attention-grabbing that it’s not autobiographical anymore. And about this guidelines, I don’t know if there may be any rule like this however the viewers, I imply at my reveals in Berlin, generally they don’t imagine it’s autobiographical as a result of generally it’s so laborious that no, no, no, it couldn’t have occurred, generally. As an illustration, my final present, I imply one actor and one actress have been onstage, nevertheless it was explicitly my story, and it was instructed firstly of on the efficiency with my identify and no matter, however on the finish of the present, many individuals thought that it was the story of that two individuals onstage and that they’re in love or no matter. Though, we instructed that, “No, it’s not their story. It’s the story of the director.” So I feel the viewers would imagine what they need, and I feel there is no such thing as a rule, even with names or no matter.

Judit: I feel the audiences create their very own story—

Panni: Completely.

Judit: —of any efficiency, and it relies upon.

Panni: So perhaps they assume that you’re grandma. It’s the grandma of Judit.

Judit: Yeah. And I can imagine it as a result of I’m actress and if I do any function however introduced anyone—as a substitute of Shakespeare or any individual—I imagine I want to grasp that particular person. And if I do it, I’m going onstage each night that in that second I feel what she’s taking, the street.

Panni: And I feel an enormous distinction as properly, as a result of if Judit would do your present, in fact it will be appearing and perhaps you might do this in an ideal means. However in any case, it will be appearing. However I feel in autobiographical reveals, you don’t must work explicitly with actors or professionally educated individuals, and that may be dynamite, actually. Dynamite, that I might see some individuals onstage who can’t communicate or sing or no matter completely. However I can simply see and there are that, “Whoa, it’s your story,” about minorities or no matter. I feel it’s a lot stronger if knowledgeable educated actor or actress would sit there and simply fake that, I don’t know, she’s a Roma girl from a small village—in fact, I wouldn’t imagine that. So I feel that’s essential too, that you simply don’t must work with professionals.

Zsófi: There’s a distinction once you additionally carry out in your autobiographical reveals after which your final piece, you didn’t carry out in it and two individuals did it. How is it totally different? I don’t know, simply the method when now you weren’t in it.

Panni: Yeah, I feel as a result of… I don’t know if it’s appropriate that I developed my technique someway and within the writing course of, I’m a director as properly, so I’m simply not writing a textual content however actually considering as a director and placing video materials and music. So every half simply develops itself. And so I did it and When Was the Final Time, blah, blah blah, and it wasn’t deliberate then I might be a part of the present. So I simply wrote the textual content, the primary model for 3 actresses and it was primarily solely my textual content, nevertheless it was the primary model.

However one of many actresses simply jumped out two days earlier than. It was not like an actual premiere as a result of it was a stage studying and he or she simply jumped out and we have been simply sitting there: “What the fuck is occurring? We have now to learn it in two days.” After which I simply instructed them, “Okay, I wrote the textual content. I imply, it’s about me largely, I do know the languages, so I can do this.” So it was not the plan, it was an accident. After which I noticed that okay, I can do it properly as a result of it’s not appearing factor.

Judit: However the others have been appearing as a result of it was your textual content, your story, your life—

Panni: Yeah, however then in a while, they’re telling however they’re not solely storytelling however very choral components and they’re political components. So now that it simply occurred to me, I feel they’re totally different. After which as a result of it was simply the quick factor firstly, after which I made interviews with them. And they’re telling their very own tales as properly the place it will simply change generally components, however they’ve autobiographical components as properly. However the present itself displays of the present making and of a director who’s scared to direct. So it was my story, and I feel it was concrete that they’re generally, not enjoying me however performing me, and generally themselves, nevertheless it was clear.

Bíborka: So I feel we’re coming to an finish quickly. Do you could have any final remarks that you simply need to add?

Panni: I simply need to inform you as a result of I noticed your entire reveals—not yours. Sure. However I’ve very recent recollections of those reveals as a result of yours—when was it?

Kristóf: In 2016.

Panni: Yeah, so six years in the past. Nevertheless it’s very recent actually in my mind as a result of I stated, “Whoa, so courageous.” Actually, you had a lot braveness.

László: Which one?

Panni: I imply all of them. It’s Whereas You’re Studying and that’s why these phrases are so essential to me and I’m having recent recollections solely it was six years in the past. However yours I feel as properly, the primary one. However yeah, I felt this tremendous sturdy connection and the way courageous individuals you’re that you’re telling your private tales or appearing or dancing or singing.

Zsófi: I additionally need to relate to what Panni stated however you stated that it’s very inspiring to listen to all of this and actually everyone seems to be so courageous, and it simply retains up this type of trustworthy and wonderful theatre work. And I actually need to see your efficiency, and yours, that I haven’t seen earlier than.

Bíborka: Me too.

Zsófi: Even when it’s autobiographical or not autobiographical or no matter it’s. If it’s like a fish and… I don’t know what, simply stick with it. Let’s do it.

Bíborka: Let’s do it.

Zsófi: This has been one other episode of the PUHA podcast. We’re your hosts, Zsófi and Bíborka. This podcast is produced as a contribution to HowlRound Theatre Commons. You will discover extra episodes of the collection and different HowlRound podcasts in our feed on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you discover your podcasts. Make sure to search HowlRound Theatre Commons podcasts and subscribe to obtain new episodes. Should you love this podcast, publish a ranking, and write a assessment on these platforms. This helps different individuals discover us.

It’s also possible to discover the transcript for this episode together with quite a lot of different progressive and disruptive content material on Have an concept for an thrilling podcast, essay, or TV occasion the theatre group wants to listen to? Go to and submit your concepts to the commons.



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